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	<title>Comments on: Wasting Real Estate In Games</title>
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	<link>http://blog.jeffool.com/2008/08/11/wasting-real-estate-in-games/</link>
	<description>Your digital jester, uninformed and uninformative, guaranteed.</description>
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		<title>By: Jeffool</title>
		<link>http://blog.jeffool.com/2008/08/11/wasting-real-estate-in-games/comment-page-1/#comment-5240</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jeffool.com/?p=96#comment-5240</guid>
		<description>In all fairness you refer only to the use of realistic locales which, yes, would have legal implications.  My &lt;b&gt;main trust&lt;/b&gt; is that I, and possibly gamers in general, would be okay with doing this with any locale, even fictional ones like the Liberty City example.  There are no legal implications there, just the implications of the attitude of gamers and their willingness to play such games.  Granted, I&#039;d like to think a cheaper (shorter) production (from the reuse of a massive asset,) would make for a cheaper product (but who knows if consumers would get anything off of that end of things.)

But, so far as realistic ones, I don&#039;t particularly think that games &#039;should&#039; be either, as I&#039;d like to think there are more &#039;benevolent&#039; reasons behind such things, like educational endeavors like you said.  And yeah, I totally get that real locations do not inherently make &#039;fun&#039; locales, that&#039;s definitely an impediment.

So far as legal issues, I&#039;m sure there are variations in UK versus US laws, but I know that you&#039;re allowed to take any video/picture you want on public property for personal use or when representing history with accuracy, but there are obviously other rules in effect when fictional commercial endeavors enter the mix.  I think (though I&#039;m not sure,) this comes into play when a city creates, or contracts, a film commission to oversee such things on behalf of the city, supporting themselves by those paying for permits and such.

Also, thanks for the comment.  I just realized how long I&#039;ve been shouting to myself over here.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all fairness you refer only to the use of realistic locales which, yes, would have legal implications.  My <b>main trust</b> is that I, and possibly gamers in general, would be okay with doing this with any locale, even fictional ones like the Liberty City example.  There are no legal implications there, just the implications of the attitude of gamers and their willingness to play such games.  Granted, I&#8217;d like to think a cheaper (shorter) production (from the reuse of a massive asset,) would make for a cheaper product (but who knows if consumers would get anything off of that end of things.)</p>
<p>But, so far as realistic ones, I don&#8217;t particularly think that games &#8217;should&#8217; be either, as I&#8217;d like to think there are more &#8216;benevolent&#8217; reasons behind such things, like educational endeavors like you said.  And yeah, I totally get that real locations do not inherently make &#8216;fun&#8217; locales, that&#8217;s definitely an impediment.</p>
<p>So far as legal issues, I&#8217;m sure there are variations in UK versus US laws, but I know that you&#8217;re allowed to take any video/picture you want on public property for personal use or when representing history with accuracy, but there are obviously other rules in effect when fictional commercial endeavors enter the mix.  I think (though I&#8217;m not sure,) this comes into play when a city creates, or contracts, a film commission to oversee such things on behalf of the city, supporting themselves by those paying for permits and such.</p>
<p>Also, thanks for the comment.  I just realized how long I&#8217;ve been shouting to myself over here.  :D</p>
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		<title>By: GameGhost</title>
		<link>http://blog.jeffool.com/2008/08/11/wasting-real-estate-in-games/comment-page-1/#comment-5239</link>
		<dc:creator>GameGhost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.jeffool.com/?p=96#comment-5239</guid>
		<description>While I think that high quality digital representations of cities, landmarks, and other geographical locations is a good idea, I don&#039;t think that games are (or should be) the driving force behind the digitalizations.

I think that the demand for these high-quality virtual representations of real places will be generated by mapping services (like Google Earth) and educational services. There may also be some call for them in virtual tourism and other related industries.

However, games should avoid them for a couple of main reasons. The first being that realism rarely makes for good level design. With perhaps the possible exception of &quot;Do Anything&quot; games, level design has to be tight enough to keep the player on track. There can be visual details, but they have to be implemented without distracting and confusing him. In the same way that movie sets can sometimes be real locations, most are heavily doctored, altered or mis-represented to present the film-maker&#039;s intended view of the area needed to present the story.

The second pitfall that should be avoided is that of controversial mis-use. There was a case a couple of years ago where an FPS used a very realistic model of a church in a level. Without the permission of the real location&#039;s occupants. This caused a kerfuffle because the church did not apprieciate being made a part of a violent game.

How would you deal with the licensing of buildings and areas? Does the city own the rights to the visual representation of your property? What do you do, as a game designer, when you try to lease a location (say, New York), but have several landmarks deny your application due to the content of your game? Does the city skyline simply have gaps, or do you design your own place-holders and obvious stand-ins?

Games are fiction, and in the same way that you can rarely use (fiction) books or movies to navigate real locations, so too with games. They present the appeal of the place, but not the reality of the space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I think that high quality digital representations of cities, landmarks, and other geographical locations is a good idea, I don&#8217;t think that games are (or should be) the driving force behind the digitalizations.</p>
<p>I think that the demand for these high-quality virtual representations of real places will be generated by mapping services (like Google Earth) and educational services. There may also be some call for them in virtual tourism and other related industries.</p>
<p>However, games should avoid them for a couple of main reasons. The first being that realism rarely makes for good level design. With perhaps the possible exception of &#8220;Do Anything&#8221; games, level design has to be tight enough to keep the player on track. There can be visual details, but they have to be implemented without distracting and confusing him. In the same way that movie sets can sometimes be real locations, most are heavily doctored, altered or mis-represented to present the film-maker&#8217;s intended view of the area needed to present the story.</p>
<p>The second pitfall that should be avoided is that of controversial mis-use. There was a case a couple of years ago where an FPS used a very realistic model of a church in a level. Without the permission of the real location&#8217;s occupants. This caused a kerfuffle because the church did not apprieciate being made a part of a violent game.</p>
<p>How would you deal with the licensing of buildings and areas? Does the city own the rights to the visual representation of your property? What do you do, as a game designer, when you try to lease a location (say, New York), but have several landmarks deny your application due to the content of your game? Does the city skyline simply have gaps, or do you design your own place-holders and obvious stand-ins?</p>
<p>Games are fiction, and in the same way that you can rarely use (fiction) books or movies to navigate real locations, so too with games. They present the appeal of the place, but not the reality of the space.</p>
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